Michigan Election 2012: Stabenow Captures Senate Seat

Five of the six statewide ballot proposals were defeated, according to early results.

Voters throughout Michigan chose Barack Obama over Mitt Romney for president, according to early results, and voted no on at least five of the six state proposals.

Michiganders also chose incumbent Democrat Debbie Stabenow over Republican challenger Pete Hoekstra for Senate, according to early results.

Voter turnout was reported to be high across the state. In 2008, 66.2 percent of Michigan's registered voters cast ballots, the highest number since 1968 when voter turnout was 66.8 percent. On Tuesday, many precincts were still taking ballots well after 8 p.m. to accommodate voters.

1:32 AM: U.S. Rep. John Dingell claimed victory and a record-breaking 30th term in Congress.

12:46 AM: Results are trickling in. Dexter Patch reports Gretchen Driskell has claimed victory in her bid for the 52nd district House seat in Michigan.

In Birmingham and Grosse Ile, only absentee ballots remain to be counted. But it could be a long wait in Trenton, where final results may not come unitl 2 or 2:30 a.m.

11 PM: Gary Peters claimed victory in the race for Michigan's 14th Congressional District seat.

“By bringing together a diverse coalition of supporters, we've won the race for the new 14th Congressional District and now it's time to begin a new chapter of partnership and cooperation throughout the Greater Detroit region,” Peters said in a release. “There's a lot more that unites us than divides us, and that's why I'm looking forward to bringing together leaders from across our community to develop solutions to the regional challenges all of us face. To everyone that came out and voted today, thank you for making your voice heard and let's get to work.”

10 PM: Democrat Debbie Stabenow gave her victory speech for another term in the Senate. Although not all precincts have reported results, the Associated Press called it for Stabenow.

9:25 PM: Media outlets such as NBC, ABC, CNN and NPR have projected Barack Obama as the winner in Michigan, but only a small percentage of precincts have reported results.

9:12 PM: The Detroit Free Press reports that all five state ballot proposals are headed to defeat.

8:24 PM: Results may come in quickly tonight in Oakland County thanks to some new technology.

Oakland is now the second county in the nation to use wireless technology to expedite election results, Oakland County Clerk Bill Bullard told Huntington Woods-Berkley Patch.

8:06 PM: Former Michigan Gov. Jim Blanchard told WXYZ that President Obama worked with Gov. Rick Snyder on the new bridge to Canada.

8:01 PM: The polls are closed. Check back here on Patch for results and news throughout the night.

6:53 PM: Chesterfield Township Clerk Jan Uglis said there's been high voter turnout throughout the day, with some precincts seeing around 600 residents each well before polls close at 8 p.m.

Uglis said she expects registered voter turnout will be in the high 70th percentile, exceeding the last presidential election cycle. Absentee ballots comprise 18 percent of Chesterfield's registered voters this election.

The Democratic clerk, who is running for re-election against Republican Cindy Berry, said she's been too busy with election duties to dwell on her bid for office.

“I feel good, but it’s not up to me. The man upstairs is the one who’s going to tell me where I’m going to be," Uglis said. “I only hope that this township gets a good board that can work together."

6:47 PM: Workers at Chrysler did not have to worry about finding time to vote today: They had the day off.

The automaker gave all 55,000 U.S. employees the day off today, according to the Huffington Post Detroit.

6:43 PM: In Fenton, 77-year-old elections worker Stanley Young greets voters with a smile.

"I do it for the money," joked Young, who has been a election worker for 25 years. "They give me $8 an hour for 12 hours. Plus we get free donuts."

4:34 PM: The Oakland County GOP chair gets them, too. During an interview in his Bloomfield Hills office adorned with photos of vintage U.S. Air Force aircraft, Oakland Party Chairman Jim Thienel reluctantly picks up the phone on his desk that just won't stop ringing, and smiles. On the other end? A voice recording of GOP presidential hopeful Mitt Romney, urging him for a vote.

"I can assure you, you have it!" Theinel quipped after putting the call on speaker. "If I got that call, it must have gone out to every number in the country."

3:36 P.M.: Precinct 23 and 24 Chairperson in Shelby Township tells Patch this is the highest voter turnout she's seen since working the polls for half a decade. Voters are reporting long lines all over the area.

2:10 PM: U.S. Rep John Dingell (D-15th District) paid a visit to Yack Arena in Wyandotte. Dingell is running against GOP challenger Cynthia Kallgren for a seat in the 12th District. Dingell is seeking his 30th term.

1:55 PM: Got a craving for something sweet? Voters in St. Clair Shores are passing their time in line with the sweet smells of baked goods. At  members of the student council were holding a bake sale with Colette Dewandler, 10, of Eastpointe, reporting sales as "really good." At the St. Clair Shores Senior Activities Center, staff members were baking 100 apple pies to be sold to voters and raise funds for the senior meal program at the facility.

1:20 PM: Rochester Mills Beer Co. is offering two free sample pours of beer to customers who voted. Across town at Rockin' Cupcakes, the bakery is offering a buy-one-cupcake-get-one-free deal for voters. 

1:05 PM: Caroline Schneemann, 18, of Farmington and Marisa Brauer, 20, of Farmington Hills cast their first votes today. Marisa described going to the polls as "pretty exhilarating." "I felt like my vote counted," she said. "I felt like an American."

12:35 PM: At Adams High School in Rochester Hills, the two candidates for 45th District state representative greeted voters about 20 feet apart from one another on Tuesday morning. Tom McMillin, the Republican incumbent, said he is encouraged by the voters he has met during his campaign and he has heard from residents who want to "keep the state turning around." Joanna VanRaaphorst, the Democratic challenger, said she has talked to many people on their way into the polls today who said they were planning to split their ticket. "I feel very encouraged by that," she said. The candidates made small talk with one another — mostly about the weather — while campaigning.

12:19 PM: A 91-year-old World War II veteran from Dexter voted in his 18th presidential election today. "Why should I vote absentee?" Bill Lowry said. "As long as I'm able to walk, I'll come to the polls myself."

11:57 AM: As if being caught up in Hurricane Sandy wasn't bad enough, some out-of-state Michigan residents, including Oakland County attorney Richard Bernstein, also are unable to vote this year because their absentee ballots didn't arrive to them in hurricane-ravaged towns on time.

11:46 AM: A Hartland voter has four words of advice for those heading to the polls today. Can you guess what they are?

11:19 AM: Students in West Bloomfield have the day off school for Election Day. Ealy Elementary School teacher Cynthia Kavieff said she hopes students use their day off to follow their parents or guardians to the poll.

11:11 AM: About 30 percent of voters in Trenton and Grosse Ile had cast their ballots before the polls even opened Tuesday morning.

10:55 AM: Dearborn City Clerk Kathy Buda said this election could mark a record for the number of absentee ballots issued in her city. Did you vote abstentee? Tell us why in the comments below.

9:31 AM: A commenter on the Lake Orion-Oakland Township Facebook page reports a wait of 1-2 hours at Musson Elementary School.

9:28 AM: Rochester Patch reports waits of one hour beginning at 6:50 a.m. at West Middle School in Rochester Hills.

9:17 AM: HuffPost Detroit has a liveblog all day to keep you up to the minute on the latest Election Day news.

8:57 AM: Hungry after you cast your vote? Then head to Tim Horton's for a free donut.

8:45 AM: Early reports suggest big voter turnout in places such as Bloomfield, Clawson and Macomb Township.

8:43 AM: How much money did the campaigns spend in Michigan this year? The Huffington Post Detroit takes a look.

8:34 AM: Lines were long Tuesday morning at Mason Elementary School. Poll workers said at least two residents were waiting for poll workers at 6 a.m., a full hour before voting began in Michigan.

Stay with Patch as we update this article all day with news and information from the polls and live election results after 8 p.m. 

Connect with us on Facebook and Twitter, too.

Lee Jacobsen November 13, 2012 at 11:27 PM
Keith, yes , the uncertainty was holding back employers , should we hire full time, or part time? The winner....Part time. Now we know our future costs, so jobs can be quoted accurately. Healthcare will be a non-cost, taken over by Obamacare. Some larger corporations will have to pay a $2000 penalty per worker, but most of the employers will follow the rules, duck the penalty, and hire part timers. The employees will be sent to the Obamacare exchanges, pick out insurance, and presented a bill. Remember when most companies offered a pension? Remember when most companies offered health insurance? Another benefit absorbed by the govt. I care about my employees, but I care more about the survival of the company, otherwise, besides no heathcare , there will be no jobs. If you are a teacher, or govt worker, you can't relate,.not yet. Detroit employees will be among the first to find out first hand what happens when a city goes into receivership, and the checks stop coming. The State tried to help. Keith, you are correct in that Taxes will be going up. Obama promised that. And I thought I could save those healthcare savings for a rainy day....darn......more taxes. The 'death tax', only tax like it in the world, will go back up to 60% for some, the rest 55%. http://www.atr.org/dont-die-confiscatory-percent-death-tax-a7051 Exemptions will fall from 5 million to 1 million, killing most small businesses. Take a deep breath, the strong will survive
Boiling November 14, 2012 at 02:07 PM
All I’m hearing from you guys is belly aching! One word explains your hypothesis concerning employment! “GREED”, yes corporate/personal greed is the main thing driving hiring and almost every point you are trying to make here! Get a life and live it, stop trying to drive your outdated model down everyone’s throat, both the popular vote and the Electoral College have spoken.
Lee Jacobsen November 14, 2012 at 04:21 PM
Boiling...obviously you are not an owner, don't have to worry about risks, employees, and paying the bills. You also don't understand the meaning of greed, which is commonly considered an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves. Look around you. Those who have way less than you consider you greedy. Conversely, you consider those who have way more as greedy. Obama wants a redistribution of wealth, so none of us have to worry about greed. That, my friend , is called socialism. The American way, which so many other countries wish they could emulate, is the freedom of choice to make as much money, possessions, or whatever as you want, and let the other guy make his choices, since he also has the same freedom of choice that you do. Perhaps you don't want to take the risks, to take the chance of making more money, or losing it all. That is your choice, and you should not judge others that decide , and succeed, where you didn't have the guts to do the same. The govt has tried to equate profit in the same mold as greed, bad move, as jobs are created and can only exist if there is profit to pay the bills, and taxes, and without the profit motive, investors will stand pat, or move to other countries that are not as greedy as the USA when it comes to taxation. Our corporate tax rate, 45%, is the highest in the world. A simple move to England cuts the tax bill in half, 22%. Why do jobs go overseas? Figure out the math.....
Daryl Patrishkoff November 15, 2012 at 10:16 AM
Lee, Well stated, as it turns out the bad guys are now the business owners and are being demonized and attacked by people who do not understand how to run a business and have never done it. The people commenting are living on paychecks and benefits that are not sustainable and once they become personally affected they will understand what the reality of the job market. Right now they are protected which gave them raises (step increases) and no participation in their generous benefit packages. As these entities go through failure this will all change drastically and they will continue to demonize the business owner as the bad guy. Uncertainty is now over; we all now know what the business environment will be for the next 4-6 years. Businesses have a planning cycle they conduct in late summer and finalize in the fall for the next year. I see that most businesses had 2 plans based on the 2 very different paths we as a country were choosing in the election. The people have spoken with the election and chose a path. It is clear that taxes will go up, costs will go up and sales will be affected. At best we will just repeat the last 4 years, which was dismal for the business community. Others fear we do not have more stimulus money to spend to keep the pace of the last 4 years and we will slip into a recession. Business is making plans to survive in the now certain chosen path; survival mode means no major investments that lead to jobs.
Rolly November 15, 2012 at 01:53 PM
Daryl is wrong, again. Evidently he missed Econ 101 and 102 in college. Lowering taxes on the wealthy and sticking it to the middle class does not spur economic growth. Taking shots at teachers, police officers, fire fighters is no way to make a point and pretty embarassing. These people work hard and deserve every penny of their pay. Question to Daryl - When have you taught a child to read, entered a burning home, stopped a domestic dispute. Pay your taxes and say Thank You. These people aren't millionaires.
Boiling November 15, 2012 at 03:53 PM
Lee & Daryl: You dribble the classic conservative bullet points that only serve a minority of the population. You try to pigeon hole me as something I am not. I have owned and operated businesses that bought and sold goods and services all the while working a full-time job for an employer other than myself. I have been semi-retired for the past 2+ years. I have paid off all of my bills, never sought any aid, and I’m paying for my retirement right now from my own savings, I’m about 15 years outside of any Social Security. I have taken the risks and I mostly worked over 70 hours a week to minimize my risks. The rhetoric you spew here is from the playbook of the past, and frankly has no place in the American Fabric any longer. Look around, things have changed over the past 30+ years. The economics of the US that we are suffering from where ushered in by Reagan and now you’re complaining that you should move your business off shore.
Boiling November 15, 2012 at 03:53 PM
continued: The demographics of the nation have changed and you are either blind or unwilling to see that. Our nation is failing our school aged children, condemning our elderly and infirm to too many uncertainties. I’m not suggesting that we carry this burden solely on the middle class backs, but what we all can do is pay a little more so that we can have education and services that are comparable to other like countries. Lee your assertion that having a business in the United Kingdom is less expensive is absurd. You fail to measure all of the costs of doing business in the UK into account, while hanging your hat on a single tax; yes, please do the math again! I for one, and my family are in fact doing better now than 4 or 5 years ago. I have forecasted our living expenses and way of life over the next decade and I foresee little that will change it. Daryl you claim Business owners are being demonized; all the while the nations teachers and public safety workers have been unjustly demonized by the Right. This is very unfortunate, but what do you expect, push back was inevitable!
FHVoice November 15, 2012 at 06:00 PM
Daryl P. wrote "Business is making plans to survive in the now certain chosen path; survival mode means no major investments that lead to jobs." Really? From the Detroit News TODAY (http://goo.gl/WjPbt): Chrysler Group LLC announced nearly a quarter of a billion dollars in new investments Thursday and said it would add about 1,250 jobs at three of its Michigan plants to boost production of engines and pickup trucks. The Auburn Hills automaker confirmed previously reported plans to invest $198 million to add production of its Pentastar V-6 motor at its Mack I Engine Plant in Detroit — a move that is expected to create 250 new jobs at the factory. Chrysler also said it will add a third shift at its Warren Truck Assembly Plant in March of next year. That will mean the addition of about 1,000 new jobs at that factory, which produces the Ram 1500 pickup. Finally, the company said it would invest $40 million in its Trenton North Engine Plant to install a flexible assembly line capable of building both the Pentastar and four-cylinder Tigershark motor. Clearly the Chicken Little Club is filled with sufferers of Obama Derangement Syndrome. This evidence of significant future investment should shock them back into reality, but they shall not be moved.
The Duke of Royal Oak November 15, 2012 at 06:52 PM
Dear Editor, It is time to close down this article, the elections are over and this is not doing anyone any good. Arguing about democrats or republicans online is acheiving nothing We are one People, One Country, let us work together for the good of all peoples. I recently read an article in AARP magazine how all the former Presidents supported each other and support the current President. Happy Thanksgiving to all. HRH The Duke of Royal Oak.
FHVoice November 15, 2012 at 08:06 PM
Lee, you have previously revealed your ignorance about the Affordable Care Act by overstating the penalty and your exposure. In your continued attack on the ACA, you declare you must shrink your company, hire part-time workers, and/or drop the healthcare coverage you claim you render now ($14,000 / employee - http://goo.gl/YLl2H). Now you announce your plan to Walmart your workforce. Walmart jobs serve to keep members of our community in poverty. Wages averaging $8.81/hour add up to just $15,576/year for a full-time employee, but Walmart routinely keeps workers from getting enough hours during the week, and arbitrarily switches up available hours to prevent workers from seeking supplemental employment elsewhere. As a result, It has the largest number of employees who rely on public assistance, with no healthcare. Just why you would have to go that route is a mystery. President Obama cut taxes for small business owners 18 times and signed into law $200 billion in tax relief and incentives to encourage businesses to create jobs, invests, and grow. The Small Business Jobs Act made 4.5 million small businesses eligible for a larger tax break on new investments in equipment and machinery. Obamacare provided tax credits to small businesses to help cover the cost of their employees’ health care, saving an average small business with 10 workers up to $35,000 a year, which will increase to up to $50,000 when those tax credits expand in 2014. ...
FHVoice November 15, 2012 at 08:06 PM
... Currently small businesses pay up to 18% more than large businesses for the same health coverage. Thanks to Obamacare, starting in 2014 they’ll have the same purchasing clout as big businesses through new state-based affordable insurance markets, leveling the playing field and lowering costs for millions more small firms. Of course, if the GOP refuses to set up a state exchange, you might miss out on this benefit. So, Lee, whine on if you must, but understand all we have to offer in return is cheese. Your protests are based upon false analysis of the act, inaccurate depiction of its costs, and a politically motivated distortion of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Those who live in the real world do and/or will understand that this is progress, and the nation will be better for it.
Lee Jacobsen November 15, 2012 at 09:10 PM
Boiling, let's see some links to back up your statements, you are talking off the top of your head. Here is a link to show just how absurd you are that you don't see the obvious, it's only from the Wall St. Journal and Eaton is just a multi million dollar 109 yr old firm fleeing the USA from Ohio....to save on taxes....only 11% in Ireland vs 45% in USA. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444230504577615232602107536.html Let me do the math for you again.... For every dollar I make in the USA, 45 cents goes to Uncle Sam. If I am based in Ireland, like Eaton Corp, only 11 cents goes to the govt. Seems like 4 times the savings to me, how is your math? Boiling, you are in the minority. Most folk don't have your sense of saving, initiative, and , since you are 15 yrs from SS, that means you are in your late 40s. My guess is that you had a job that allowed you freedom to run another sales operation of your own, perhaps something in govt that allowed you to retire early. Firefighting, Military? That is not the norm in our society, 70 hour weeks , part time will be the norm... Regarding education, more money is not the answer. Look at the results in Detroit. Wise spending is the answer. You mention other countries? They dropped the 'summer off for harvest ' concept decades ago. Our kids should be going to school year round, ,and yes, the teachers will have to work 12 months and pay their share of Obamacare like the rest of us.
Lee Jacobsen November 15, 2012 at 09:40 PM
Duke, communication is the key, and hiding your head in the sand will not make the debt go away, will not explain Obamacare, and why companies are transferring the burden of cost back to the govt and employees once again, as it was before WWII. After all , if you want a service, then you should pay for it, right? It willl be interesting to see Boiling going to the Obamacare exchanges, and getting a reality check. Ditto for FH voice. By shutting down the thrread, you somehow feel that the issues will melt away.... FHvoice, regarding Chrysler , note that Chrysler is saving Fiat , not the other way around like Obama wanted, and that we should commend Chryler , while condemn GM (govt motors), as they are moving much of their operations to China. See link. http://newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/6664 You can pretend that all is 'wonderful' in Obamaland, but there comes a time when the folk with money to risk will look at the odds, the higher taxes, the regulations, and simply say, It's not worth the risk anymore. Others, like Eaton Corp, will seek greener pastures . We will soon be under Biden anyway, when Obama is tossed out for his Obamagate coverup, which gets more convoluted everyday.
Daryl Patrishkoff November 15, 2012 at 09:58 PM
Boiling and FHVoice, Of course you do not agree with me as you continue to hide behind a fake name, come out of hiding, this is America and we still have free speech. I see you both keep spewing the same insults at people who do list their names and try to demonize them. Come out of hiding and join in on an adult conversation. I am in the active business community and know what is going on and how businesses are making plans for the increased costs they are going to see starting in 2013. In business we have to live within a budget and reality, so we have to plan ahead, this is what we are doing. I just attended a conference on Venture Capitalist and Angle Investors to see how they are going to act in the new reality. The cost of investments just went up with higher taxes and capital gains increases limiting the investments to new companies creating innovative products. It is a math problem and these changes that are our "New Normal" has consequences and will cause less innovation due to the higher costs for risky investments. You can call me "Chicken Little" but I am assessing what the new reality is and the cost to do business in this environment. Higher costs mean less money for investment and jobs. Then this money goes to the government who is not known for spending money wisely without any accountability. But this is now our "New Normal" and business will find a way to survive in this environment. We are making plans to survive.
Daryl Patrishkoff November 15, 2012 at 09:59 PM
Rolly, Read the post above and come out of hiding. Be a real person and have an adult intelligent conversation.
Daryl Patrishkoff November 15, 2012 at 10:01 PM
FHVoice, No one is whinning, we are stating the "New Normal" and how we are going to act as business in this new environment. Elections and decisions have consequences, this is what is going to happen so business can survive and find a way to thrive.
Lee Jacobsen November 15, 2012 at 10:29 PM
FHvoice, does Walmart follow the rules? That would be a yes or no. If they follow the rules, all those workers will now get Obamacare. At the very least, by paying the penalty for not having insurance , they are still covered. The taxpayers will pay for that. Just as folk without kids pay a school tax. Part of living in society. I get the feeling that you feel I should be paying healthcare costs for others, not just myself. I am giving that choice to my employees, they can go to the Obamacare exchanges and choose their healthcare. According to you, they have the same clout as anyone else regarding costs. Time will tell. Times will be just like before WWII.when healthcare was offered as a benefit to offset frozen wages. Benetits are a choice, not a right. Instead of pensions, we now have 401Ks, again , choices by the employees. Regarding cutting taxes 18 times for business...look at the cuts, they are obscure. Don't apply to small business at all. Just talking points. Obamacare kills jobs, when you hit the magic 50 employee number, penalties kick in, a minimum of 40 grand. Guess where I and many other companies will target our growth to stop? Yep. 48 to 49 full time folk. Reward? No penalties, less paperwork. Of course, many companies will fire folk to get down to that number, but that is part of Obama's mysterious job creation plan. Firing means more jobs. Right!.... Try some Pappa John's pizza, Red lobster, Sears? all going part time.
Robert November 16, 2012 at 07:52 PM
Poor Daryl. He is so sad that Obama won. Has to take it out on the Patch community.
Lee Jacobsen November 17, 2012 at 01:39 AM
Daryl, don't let Robert get your goat. He obviouslly doesn't have a clue, otherwise he would not be so nonchalant about his taxes going up. His attitude is that of one who either does not pay taxes, probably retired on a govt pension, or a govt worker who feels that tax increases are job security for him. My guess is that he feels Obamacare will be paid for by the govt entity that employs him, and he is probably correct. What he doesn't realize is that his paycheck is more than likely paid by the taxes paid by the one half of us that still pay federal taxes. Obamacare will not cause a quick death in healthcare benefits. I , and other business owners will have a 'set' reserve for healthcare, As healthcare goes up, the difference in cost is paid by those buying the service, usually the employees. The younger ones will simply pay the small penalty and forget it. Those with families will expect Obama to pay for it. Surprise!! Since Obama is raising taxes on the rich, those making good money , like teachers, govt adms, etc, remember, it is the combined income of the family to reach $250, not hard if you have a good year in the market, and both wage eaners make , say $100 grand. If you are a union boss, you are automatically rich. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/14/teacher-union-bigs-rake-in-dough-despite-budget-cuts-across-education-sector/ Actions speak louder than words. Time to work for Obamacare and let them pay me. Someone has to make the bandaids...
Lee Jacobsen November 17, 2012 at 02:24 AM
FHvoice, Do you like twinkies, Hostess fruit pies? Apparently the unions did not believe that a larger, 2.2 billion dollar company would actually choose to go out of business, part of the reason was Obamacare, most of it was the baker's union. They were too greedy. Let's see, Chrysler added 1000 jobs here, another 250 according to you there, and what is on the other side of the job balance sheet, a mere 18,500 jobs, gone via the demise of Hostess. It is a private company. They can close the doors if the economic feasibillty does not allow a profit. Freedom of Choice. The workers had the freedom to strike, and demand more money. The owner also had freedom of choice. The brands will be sold, and , who knows? Twinkies may be imported from China, they do last forever, right? The reality here is that the union overplayed its hand and has destroyed the jobs of all its members, because it refused to recognize economic facts. Again, actions do speak louder than words.
David Cashman November 17, 2012 at 06:57 PM
Bill Peters-- you should proof read your junk before posting- It's hard read- Can't follow-anyone who votes no on a millage that costs pennys a day and helps school children is a gigantic cheapskate.
David Cashman November 17, 2012 at 07:30 PM
yeah, well, some other junk food company will fill the Twinkie void. The company will probably have to hire new employees to meet the growing demand. Someone's loss is someone's gain. For example, I will never eat Papa Johns or shop at Walmart ever again. "Freedom of choice". I will continue to eat pizza and shop, though. Just not at ultra right wing corporations which bully their employees. And I expect masses of consumers to do likewise.
JMB November 18, 2012 at 01:51 AM
FH Voice is just an Obama For America paid blogger. This ilk is all over the blogosphere. You will see the same info on other Patch blogs around the country. Our Dear Leader has to pay bloggers to spread the propaganda.
FHVoice November 18, 2012 at 07:41 AM
Typical anti-union drivel, Lee. Read my response to this issue here: http://farmington-mi.patch.com/articles/poll-which-hostess-treat-will-you-miss-the-most#comment_5516814 Bottom line? You analysis is wrong. Again.
Brad Jensen November 18, 2012 at 04:49 PM
What is your obsession with this? I think you should address the issue and not the person. Therefore, there is no reason to "come out of hiding" unless you plan ad hominem attacks/ stalking.
Brad Jensen November 18, 2012 at 05:28 PM
Yes, those evil hostess unions folks were greedy. That is why they agreed to to $110 million in cuts in 2004? The management squandered it and still went out of business. The company has had 6 CEOs and no one was able to save it. Then they had the nerve to blame it on the employees. Just like Papa Johns reducing hours and increasing the price of pizza - for Obamacare whose provisions won't come into effect until 2014. Meanwhile, he gets to line his own pockets at the cost of his employees. In addition, he pissed off 52% of the population who realize that there are other places to buy pizza. When he finally goes out of business he will probably blame his employees again. Damn greedy employees wanting to take their kids to the doctor! If you want a lower tax rate why DON'T you take your company to Ireland? I think that you realize that there are other benefits that you have by having your company in the US. Also, that low tax rate is not for all businesses and mostly benefits large multinational manufacturing firms, so good luck with that. BTW, you might want to check Ireland's credit rating with Moody's before you pack your bags.
Brad Jensen November 18, 2012 at 05:39 PM
Oh, and the Hostess union folks were not demanding more money, they were refusing further concessions. Plus they were ticked off that Hostess was not fulfilling their pension obligations in violation of their contract. I have seen nothing about blaming it on Obamacare. I think you are making that up.
Lee Jacobsen November 19, 2012 at 05:49 AM
Brad, Unions and work rules killed Hostess. Hostess was party to 372 separate collective bargaining agreements (CBAs"). The CBAs collectively mandated maintenance of 80 different health and welfare benefit plans, The unions have work rules that hamstring operations. For example, Hostess often provided both bread and cake products to an individual customer location. The existing work rules required that, on many routes, separate trucks must deliver the bread and cake products to that single customer location. The work rules also required that, in some bakeries and distribution centers, a separate individual must be used to load the trucks (competitors have drivers who load their own trucks) and separate people must load either bread or cake onto a truck. Finally, work rules require that, in some instances even when a route representative is already visiting a customer location, that representative may not move product within that location; rather, a separate employee must visit the customer location to move product from the back room to the shelf. Often, this so-called "pull-up" employee cannot move both bread and cake and, thus, two "pull-up" employees must make this same trip. This multiplies the number of individuals necessary to deliver product to customers and doubles the fuel and truck costs. Finally, the work rules prevent Hostess from implementing alternative distribution systems into new, currently unserved markets. Again, outmoded union rules killed Hostess.
Brad Jensen November 20, 2012 at 04:05 PM
John Galt is a fictional character.
Brad Jensen November 20, 2012 at 04:15 PM
The unions were not entirely blameless. However, to say "the unions killed Hostess" and then somehow blaming that on Obama and/or Obamacare is disingenuous. You did not address how management squandered the millions of investment dollars and union concessions, you did not address the 6 CEOs since 2004 or the pillaging of millions of dollars for raises and golden parachutes for the upper management. I suspect that you would have also blamed KMart's near bankruptcy on the employees as well (it was clearly bad management). I hate stupid inflexible union rules. It is up to the unions to recognize and correct the things that just create costs and hassle and get rid of them in order to remain relevant for the next century. However, you conflate this bankruptcy with Obamacare, unions in general, liberals etc. which is exactly the type of partisan thinking that has led to gridlock.


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