Are You on Board for Light Rail?
Leave a comment below to let us know your thoughts on light rail in Detroit.
Do you believe light rail is a good investment for Detroit?
That’s the question this week after the light rail circulator project along Woodward Avenue in Detroit received $25 million in federal funding.
The proposed 3.3-mile light rail circulator will have 11 stations on Woodward running from downtown to New Center, according to a press release.
Light rail has the support of many business and political leaders, including Roger Penske, the chairman of M-1 RAIL, and Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder.
“Investing in infrastructure and transportation projects like this are absolutely vital to our economic recovery, and this important funding will make the M-1 project a reality and bring with it nearly 2,000 jobs for the region,” U.S. Rep. John Dingell, a Democrat from Dearborn, said in a statement. “For far too long, Detroit has been one of the only major cities in this country without a source of mass transit, but that ends today. Those who have helped move this project forward at every turn understand that it will help bring opportunity to this great city, in business recruitment, foot traffic in our stores and shops, and reliable, modern transportation that folks can rely on. I’m proud to have worked to help secure this important funding.”
What do you think? Is light rail a good idea for Detroit and southeastern Michigan? Leave a comment to let us know what you think.
jon orlando
9:20 am on Saturday, January 19, 2013
No I'm not
Jessica Carreras
10:53 am on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Why not, Jon? I'm on the fence about it. In a way, it seems like putting the cart before the horse. Not sure it will be "the answer" for Detroit. I'm curious to hear more opinions on the subject, though!
Pudenda Shenanigans
11:04 am on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Absolutely 100% against it. We need to cut spending and lower taxes, not build a 3 mile fun train for millions. It's a total waste of our money.
ScotTee
12:23 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
the keyword being "millions";)
edward binkley
3:29 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
I totally agree..just think wow we already have a train station ,a budget for a golf course our kids aren't gonna be learning homework from.but we close your close library and can't be within our heart to give our museum even the littlest budget for our childs sake of learning, and all the business are going broke on michigan avenue why because the bloody parking meters why have another city hall whats wrong with the one we have. if the city is so broke how are we coming up with the money for this crap. time for a new mayor
Sam123
9:43 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
Edward, where do we have a train station?
Matt
3:41 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
$0 of your Michigan tax dollars are going to this and the federal dollars are limited. It is private investment for the most part. Do you really think they would be building this for fun? The key word is INVESTMENT. Those who own land downtown realize is crucial to make their land more valuable and prosperous. Would you turn down $100-500 from the government to pave a street that was dangerous for your car so you can drive to work or school? If not, then you can't tell people like me (who look like you and work hard in white collar jobs, in case you were wondering) that work and live in the city that we aren't also entitled to help to improve our transportation.
John
12:04 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Rail never works. Even Japan, where in Tokyo most people use light rail to commute, it loses huge amounts of money.
ScotTee
12:22 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
yeah but if those people couldn't take light rail what do you think would happen to the traffic in Tokyo? Do you know how much money would be lost in daily gridlock?
Ted
9:18 pm on Sunday, January 20, 2013
I'm curious. Why do we insist on rail transportation being self sufficient? Neither the auto, airline or shipping industries would exist if it wasn't for billions of dollars annually in infrastructure funding. Rail seems to be the only transportation sector we expect to be self sustaining.
ScotTee
12:19 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Fantastic idea. Every major city needs good public transport to get shoppers and drinkers to the city's various neighborhoods. Even if it operates at a loss the net gain will be well worth it. Obviously.
John Lang
12:27 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
If you want to see an example of a failure like this one will be, go downtown and take a ride on one of Coleman Young's biggest boondoggles, the People Mover. The thing runs round and round on a 2.9 mile circle, carrying about 10% of its capacity, to places that are within easy walking distance of each other. That city is trying to get by on about half of the police and fire crews that it needs right now. Why waste more good money on something like this?
Chris K
8:36 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
That's about right John. Coleman Yound and then mayor of Livonia, Ed McNamara got into ... matches about everything back then and when it came to transportation it was about control of SEMTA and DSR and how many people would be on boards from DEtroit versus the suburbs and who would pay for the DSR pensions. (yes I am going back to the 70's ) Light rail was proposed way back then! Nothing ever happened so People Mover got built as the train to nowhere! I am very opposed to spending the money, now almost 40 years later. Had egos not been in the way back then maybe midtown would never have lost its entire base though it was deteriorating even back then.
ScotTee
8:51 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
No one wants to walk more than a block in 10 degree weather, John. Public transit will help keep drunk drivers off the streets, which will help cops. Public transit will help stores and restaurants, which will in turn have more taxable income. Not 2 mention: Building this rail at a cost of about $12 per MI citizen will employ 2,000 people. That is not breaking the bank to employ thousands of people. At some point in the future the rail will likely be extended further into the 'Burbs where more people will have access to it.
Les
1:36 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Please do not waste my money ---it seems to be a train from nowhere to nowhere!!!!
giorgio fanotta
2:00 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
can always use it to go to DMC ...if the ambulance breaks down .... 25,000,000 dollars sure could fix a lot of fire houses and pay for more police ... Take a ride down there if you are for it , then answer the question ... while in town stop by the people mover and take it for a ride Good Luck ....
Matt
3:44 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
That money was already earmarked for transportation, not fire and police which atre controlled by local budgets. SMH...
Chris Koehler
2:11 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Light rail is a community (place) development project not a transportation project. It will create a sustainable walking city. Portland Oregon is a prime example of the success of building for density rather than sprawl. Portland has one of the higher unemployment rate because the density attracts so many young and talented. Our more distant would not be sustainable if the residents were required to pay for the infrastructure themselves. Snyder's tax proposal will be a subsidy to the Tea Party advocates.
DEARBORN DDS
2:23 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Crain's Reports $137 MILLION DOLLAR LIGHT RAIL... for 3.3 miles...???Construction should begin this summer on a Woodward Avenue streetcar project in Detroit now that the U.S. Department of Transportation has committed $25 million to the $137 million-to-$140 million private-public effort known as M1 Rail. That was the word from M1 Rail CEO Matt Cullen after this morning's announcement by U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood that Washington was supplying the funding. M1, which has secured $100 million in capital funds from the local business community, foundations and other sources, has been doing preliminary environmental work on the 3.3-mile streetcar route that will stretch between Congress and Grand Boulevard.
Ernest Richardson
2:32 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Another way to piss away money. It's too short, it goes "downtown". Downtown looks like it's been hit by a nuclear bomb, Who wants to go there? The denizens of Detroit will destroy it anyway. reduce the National Debt, invest in Education, fix roads. Do something usefull with the money. Don't waste it on a railroad to nowhere.
ScotTee
8:55 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
"Who will go there?" Try young tech savy entrepreneurs and Dan Gilbert's employees. You do realize there are a lot of moneyed people trying to turn Detroit in the the Midwest's own Silicone Valley, don't you? You have read those news articles...
Matt
3:48 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
This caucasian, Ivy League graduate, with a white collar job and plenty of similar friends lives and works downtown. I'm glad you stay out in your area so that I don't have to deal with ignorant people every day. But hey, come support the Tigers and Lions and make fun of how the city looks. I'm sure that will help the reputation of the area you live in to anyone from outside of the state.
Lee Jacobsen
3:56 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Ernest, the train will transport folks from the burbs to the farms, as Detroit will revert to its 'roots'. That is one of the proposals on the board anyway.
We could always invest in more buses, think of all the buses you could buy.
In Europe, it is easy to get spoiled by the rail system, it is always on time, clean, and
very easy to use. Does not cost that much either. Every time I return to the USA, the ineptitude of our public transportation system compared to places like England slaps you in the face. I am sure others have similar views. Easy movement of folk means more commerce, and less car congestion. Of course , being the car capital of the world, public transport has been a bottom feeder on the agenda for decades in the Detroit Metro area.
This short rail system is at least a start. Buses would be a temporary fix at best. What ever happened to the trolley cars on Michigan ave? Time to bring them back? Perhaps a short trolley rail connecting East and West Dearborn, with a stop at the new city hall to collect money to run it?
Lianne Mathie
5:01 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Lee, the trolleys were sold to Mexico where they are still n operation today. If Snyder doesn't do something about the auto insurance rates, half of us will be walking, biking or taking the bus anyway.
I'm not sure we could pull light rail off here because we are all in our personal bubbles(cars).
Lee Jacobsen
11:28 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
Lianne, one possible way to reduce insurance costs on cars and families is to assess the catastrophic insurance per driver, and not per car. Many folk have more than one car and they are paying up to $175 per car for this fund, which currently has a 2 billion plus surplus. How many cars can one person drive at once? The insurance should be assessed per driver, not car. Of course, the other side argues that if you can afford two cars, say a truck for hauling and a mini for work, you can afford the extra $$. I say that is unfair, as the driver is the one using the fund, not the car. More on the subject here. http://www.michigancatastrophic.com/ConsumerInformation/FAQ/tabid/2944/Default.aspx
AndreaVH
7:08 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013
I tend to like the idea of light rail (not really the trolley that they had years ago). If it can bring more business into Detroit, and be a well maintained and safe system, then I think many people working in the city, that live outside the the city, will use it to get to work, or even come into Detroit for special events. Yes, it is alot of money but I tend to look towards the future. Can we postpone it ...sure for maybe a year or two until Detroit gets their finances in order. But to say NO they don't need one is ridiculous! I would like to see this light rail go in other directions than down Woodward Ave.
I was in Europe in June last year and I used their rail and light rail system. It was clean, efficient and always on time. I saw all kinds of people using it from school kids, older retired folks and workers. Being a tourist I was a little afraid to use light rail (electric bus like vehicles) but once I used it in Germany and Belgium, I came to love them! They even have the rail route map over the exit door. To get on the rail you would go to the rail stop (covered building) and bought the ride from the automate that what next to the building. This system is also similar to one used in Los Angeles, San Fran and New Orleans. Yes...I would have to say, its time for Detroit to have one too.
Frustrated Old Man
9:16 am on Sunday, January 20, 2013
Gov. Snyder needs the rail system to haul our wasted tax dollars into Detroit.
Daniel R. Hawkins
10:40 am on Sunday, January 20, 2013
I must say no to this light rail idea, it will not get used over time and the cost will be big and over budget. Some cultures and areas it works but it will be an rummaged, graffiti covered new crime stag. Our No-Fault insurance only needs some tweaking just to get rates a little more reasonable. As for Mr. Penske and Gov Snyder being behind the idea, well that's a big reason to say NO. Both of those men, good business men, could be, not to great on politics.
ScotTee
9:01 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
You expect Detroiters to drive for how much longer? 40 years? How much will gas cost in 10 years? $9 a gallon? Detroit is long, long overdue for decent public transit.
"Some cultures and areas it works" what does that mean?
Matt
3:50 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
The People Mover doesn't have graffiti and is not rummaged. Typical sheltered, uneducated, racist talk.
DEARBORN DDS
11:39 am on Sunday, January 20, 2013
To everybody above... this is a 3.3 MILE rail line, who actually will ride it? it is not moving people from the "burbs" to the city, it basicly goes from the riverfront to Grand Boulevard, and on the M1 Rail website, they are comparing this to Portland, Oregon and Dallas, Texas....what they should be comparing it to is the People Mover. It is interesting that the key people involved all have an economic interest in improving property values along the rail lines route. Look at the route, look at who owns the property along the route, and figure out who will benefit???
petey
12:50 pm on Sunday, January 20, 2013
Another huge infusion of cash to be invested in "the moneypit" known as Detroit.Wonder how many legal cases for corruption this little project will create!
John Korovilos
4:59 pm on Sunday, January 20, 2013
I grew up in a small town in west central Ohio, and one of my favorite memories is riding on interurban trains that connected many towns to larger cities. They were fast, comfortable, convenient, and affordable, even in the Depression. They were put out of business through the efforts of the billionaires in the automobile industry, because, with such convenient, affordable, reliable rail service, who needs cars? The auto and related industries lobbied diligently to favor building highways (publicly funded, don't forget) over privately-owned rail lines. In the years prior to World War 2, the Federal and State highway systems were expanded and improved, with mostly Federal and state funding. While this did indeed provide jobs for many in those days of high unemployment, the privately-owned railroads (not just the interurbans) were being squeezed, and the interurbans began to close down, one by one. The mainline railroads were starting to feel the pinch, but the increase in war production, requiring ever greater heavy transportation services, prompted ever larger private investment and government support for rail and highway freight facilities. After the war, consolidation of the railroads, the reduction of passenger business, expansion of private automobile use, and the rapid increase in air travel has put the concept of interurban/light rail out of consideration by private investors, so any efforts in that direction will necessarily require government backing to grow.
David L.
12:54 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
The fact that Detroit has no viable mass=transportation system is an embarrassment. While I'm not sure this particular project is the answer, the construction of some type of system needs to start someplace.
As I'm currently living in a capital city of Europe, I have come to appreciate the ease that mass-transport provides when attempting to travel around a large city. There is no way I would ever try to drive around this city if there is a train route that goes anywhere near where I need to go.
That being said, it's not uncommon at all for people to actually walk, yes walk(!) to a destination less than a mile or so away. While, admittedly, I would never have considered doing such a thing prior to moving here, I now see taking the car in such an instance to be a complete and utter waste.
Lee Jacobsen
1:24 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
David, Totally agree with you. Anyone traveling for a short period of time in Europe quickly appreciates the efficient transportation system that they have, and, upon returning to the States, wonders why we can't have at least something better. Over a period of 20 years going to Switzerland, and traveling via train, the train schedules remained the same, and were always clean and on time. Carts for moving luggage were free, and often, designed to actually go on the trains. Europe of course is more condensed, so trains don't have the distance to travel, but we are smart, surely we can do better than what we have now to get around. I remember the trolleys down Michigan Ave in the 50s. Here is a trolley ride from the 1900s for comparison. Not much different. Mexico has em.
Note the casual Jay walking by everyone!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=954L9MpfCEo
John Lang
7:24 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
Your free carts wouldn't be around longer than about 10 minutes down in that neighborhood.
Lee Jacobsen
7:38 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
John, folk don't steal things that are free, after they take a few because they can, and the scrappers refuse them, the carts will stick around. One can also add access posts of an 'artistic' nature which keep them localized and not all over the neighborhood. Detroit folk are used to the posts, we see them in front of supermarket doors to prevent carts from helping the homeless in the parking lots.
John Lang
9:46 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
Folk don't steal things that are free. Now there's a concept. Would that be like the free copper pipe that gets taken out of a residential property that the scrappers refuse?
What a fantasy world some live in. A video from a hundred years ago? Put us in a time machine and take us back there. Please. I'm all for it.
Instead, for a dose of 2013 reality, get in your car and take a ride down to Woodward Avenue, park your car in a dark lot, get out and start walking. See what happens. Then come back and tell us about it.
Lee Jacobsen
1:15 am on Saturday, February 2, 2013
John, there are all kinds of 'free' iron manhole covers that the scrappers seem to refuse as well. The carts will survive.
Regarding walking down a dark Woodward ave at night, not a problem in Birmingham, Royal Oak, etc, or do you mean Detroit? That would be a problem, but of course the train system and stops will have lights, and all would be bright in the world. The Detroit lighting system will be privatized by then and folks that know how to screw in a light bulb will be on the job.
Light rail vs Advanced Buses? Long argued, and here is a site that offers some comments. A combo of both seem to be the answer. In CA not so good.
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/12/fast-buses-vs-light-rail-you-decide/
ScotTee
8:31 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
To all the naysaysers,
First, have you used a light rail train in a real city like LA or Portland or even Chicago? Or are you basing your comments on your lifelong experiences living in Suburbs like Shelby Twp?
Second, do you realize this project will only cost each person roughly 10-dollars!?! Is that really too much for you people? $10 to build a train which will last 50 years and that is too much money for you?
Third, the People Mover has nothing to do with this project. One brings people downtown, the other shuffles people around downtown. When downtown is revived more people will use the People Mover. It's not going anywhere.
Fourth, when should Detroit build light rail? AFTER Dan Gilbert turns the city around, BEFORE? Or WHILE Gilbert is turning the city around?
Fifth, do you cheapskates realize just how friggin' cheap you are?
John Lang
8:55 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
To answer your first question, yes, and no.
Dan Gilbert has no interest in turning Detroit around beyond building his Midwest gambling empire. He's in the process of buying out Greektown Casino, along with parking lots and infrastructure along the Woodward corridor to support it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/dan-gilbert-greektown-casino-hotel-_n_2489830.html
The idea is for you to drive down to the city and park in one of his lots, ride a couple of miles or less to his casino on a shuttle/train that was partially funded by the taxpayers.
So yes, count me in as being too cheap to contribute $10 to that.
kidcat24
9:55 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
John, I go downtown and I don't go to casinos. I would use the light rail.
ScotTee
11:07 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
John-- So the 27th building/company Gilbert buys is a Casino and now Gilbert is only interested in Detroit to turn the city into a gambling mecca? What about all the office buildings he bought first, how do those fit into your version of his plans?
John--my last question was rhetorical-- clearly you are too cheap to spend 10 bucks on 2,000 jobs which will increase the property values of one of the most depressed cities in America.
Al Seder
9:23 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
It will be the most expensive shuttle bus in history. A very expensive way to get Wings Fans to the new Arena. Illich SCORES Again. He spends 10 cents and we spend $500 to make him richer. Another waste of money. And the money we have to spend that we don't have just because the Feds say so. A New Train Station that won't get used any more than the current one does. It will turn into a very expensive entrance to Greenfield Village without the parking. I don't think you can list the ways all this is bad for us. Obama insist that we will have Trains even though they will be empty. How much are we subsidizing Amtrack Now ?
John Lang
9:37 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
Well north of a billion dollars a year right now. Romney was chastized for suggesting that it be privatized. Another thing he was right about that will continue to balloon the Federal deficit.
KC CHASE
9:24 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
I will get on the list of being "too cheap" to waste even $10 on that. $10 can feed my family for 2 days. I have no desire to go downtown, so I am against wasting the money.
ScotTee
12:23 pm on Monday, January 21, 2013
Your family can eat off of $2.50 a day? That's less than one dollar per meal for your entire family... you are either a great bargain shopper or you should probably be using mass transit instead of a costly automobile. Be a good person, skip pizza one night this year-- only one night-- and use that money to help turn Detroit around. Of course, though you would have to shell out 10 bucks for each person in your household--which can't be more than 2 can it?
John Lang
12:41 pm on Monday, January 21, 2013
How many times have we been told that by being a good person and just giving a little bit more, we could help turn Detroit around? When we were told that giving out tax credits to the film industry would be just what the city needs? When just giving another $20 a year to the DIA would get us in for free? We've been duped for 50 years on hundreds of similar types of scams and there will never be an end to it as long as we believe everything we're told.
kidcat24
9:36 am on Monday, January 21, 2013
I would be much more on board with high speed rail.
LugNut
10:55 am on Tuesday, January 22, 2013
Every one of these projects turns into a fiscal black hole. If you want to help poor people get to work; it would be many times cheaper to have a Smart Bus pick them up and drop them off at their doorstep. The businessmen behind this have not looked at the history of these projects. We had a nice interurban transit system in this area 60 years ago. The problem was it was not paying for itself. Buses are much more cost efficient, and more importantly; flexible in their routes. All this money could have given us a first-class bus system. Also, there is already concern from the relatively few profitable businesses along the route that they will be put out of business due to construction; which is estimated at two years.
Greg Harris
2:31 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
I am totally in favor of the light rail project. I believe bigger and better things are going to happen in the city of Detroit
Holly Dentry
5:10 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Why would putting $25 million into another worthless transportation system in Detroit be a good idea??? Let's see, all the tax paying citizens that live any where around that stretch of Woodward needing fast transportation??? NO.. How about all the congestion on I75 and 696 every morning? what about putting a light rail in that area to help the people actually working get to work easier?? Better idea!!!
Matt
12:55 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
Holly, wouldn't incentivizing people to move closer to their work by having more conveniences also lessen congestion on the highways? I love my 5 minute commute vs. the 20-45 I had when I was in royal oak. Give people like me housing near our jobs and we will live downtown and let you fight traffic.
Matt
10:02 am on Friday, January 25, 2013
I don't think my last comment went through so I'll try again: Holly, wouldn't you say that investing in something to attract thousands of young professionals to the city would also have the effect of lessening traffic on 696 and 75? People like me want the comforts of public transport and more people in this area have a bachelors degree or higher than the rest of the city (which likely means we are paying higher taxes). So, in essence, either invest a smaller amount for this important area to grow, or pay tons for a rail in the areas you speak of... And every other surrounding area who also complain about the same issues. By the way, I enjoy my 5 minute commute every day compared to the 20-45 I had while living in Royal Oak.